¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ

Alexi: I'm certainly not gonna like.

Sacrifice the things I'm doing with the rest of my life. Like I love Guiding Lisa. I love doing crazy, fun things with all the brands I'm working with. I love, the art I'm doing is, is, is really taking front seat, but I am still. Running

Paddy: i, I, I think you're an achievement. Tasmanian devil.

Alexi: but it's

Paddy: are just, you are

Alexi: that's what you see though, because I

Paddy: It is what I see. I

Alexi: but I don't care. It's not about the, like I don't, it's, I don't know. Maybe it's about it. I guess I have to talk to my, I have therapy right after this, so I'm gonna talk to my therapist about this because I don't know if it's about achievement. I don't know.

Maybe it is and

Paddy: I am not saying that it, the achievement has to be the, the, the medal or the podium. It can be bounding without resistance up the hill. It can be a great writing session it can be the big pitch that you land for the giant studio blockbuster, the way in which that you're [00:01:00] describing both your artistic life and your athletic life, the thing that connects them both is this will to do. Do you that?

Alexi: The only thing I think is. Standing between me and anything is just doing it. Is that what you're saying? I mean, that's how I feel. Like if I was like

Paddy: that how you feel?

Alexi: a hundred percent,

Paddy: PADDYO VO:

 Ever heard of a tardigrade? It's an eight-legged micro animal about a half millimeter long, that looks like the love child of a pig, an armadillo, and a moldy ottomon. They live literally anywhere, from the highest peaks to the bottom of the ocean; they withstand extreme temperatures and pressures, and can survive without oxygen or food. These things have even survived in space. That kind of bonkers adaptability can be found all the way up the food chain--from the diving bell spider, which lives its entire life underwater in a web-encased air bubble, to the bull shark, which can swim straight out [00:02:00] of the salty ocean and into a freshwater river when it gets hungry for a cow. If you think humans are somehow less versatile than these creepy clever critters, I submit to you one Alexi Pappas.

PAUSE PAUSE

Alexi Pappas is a kalediescope of identities and talents. She is an Olympic runner, an actress, filmmaker, director, and writer. She began running as a way to deal with the tragic loss of her mother and found solice and confidence on the track, trails, and on the stage. At Dartmouth, she was a 2 time all-american cross-country runner, acted in an improv group, and majored in  English and Creative Writing.

 In 2016, Alexi became a Greek citizen and made her olympic debut as a distance runner at the games in Rio. That year she also wrote, directed, and starred in her first feature film, Tracktown. At the Olympics, she ran a national [00:03:00] record and a personal best in the 10k. She's run the Boston Marathon just months after what could've been a career ending surgery wearing sparkles and glitter. She's guided a blind runner to a Boston win. She has an ever-growing IMDB page. She now lives in a splitlevel cabin in a secret patch of woods above LA and some of Hollywood's most beloved creatives are her mentors and colleugues. Oh, and now she's toying with ultra running, like when she decided to run the Leadville 100 essentially off the couch with no training or the time at the Bandera Endurance Trail Race when she changed her registration from the 50k to the 100K...the day before the strating gun went pop.

The point is: Alexi Pappas is the personification of adaptability and versatility—she's basically a human tardigrade, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

MUSIC

Alexi: MUSIC

Paddy: First things first, [00:04:00] burnt toast. What is your last humbling and or hilarious moment? ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ?

Alexi: Can it be one that was just humbling in a private sense with myself? Or is it public? I'm, I'm like, are you talking.

Paddy: to share it publicly.

Alexi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, 'cause like with public humiliation you think about like, pooping in your pants or like the things that people see or dropping out of a race or something, you know. I feel like this is just a real athlete humbling moment, but it, it's what came to mind.

So I'm gonna share it

I entered this, 25K race at Point Magoo and I was gonna do it as long run with my friends we were at like mile eight or something. And we were in like maybe fifth place and I was just like, man, like, I should just run hard and like just, I should just push myself a little bit. So I did, and I think the humbling experience 'cause I'm newer to like longer distances on trails and I think it was just the humbling feeling of like, I felt so good powering like from mile like eight to 12 and then I just felt so [00:05:00] awful. But I, I felt awful.

But I as an athlete have always. Done this thing where I'll put myself like in situations where like I might later feel awful, whether it's like a in practice, in a progression, runner in a race. And I think the humbling moment is when you accept that you made that decision. I didn't have to like, take off in front of everybody and accept that your responsibility is to just keep honoring the effort

and not stop because like you kind of did this to yourself. And so I would say I have these moments with myself where I hit the limit of like my fitness. Those are humbling moments. 'cause I do it frequently because I push myself frequently,

Paddy: So is it kind of like when, uh, past you puts future you in a terrible situation and present you hates past you and future you hates present. You

Alexi: Yeah. But then you have to zoom out and say, actually future, future me will [00:06:00] be grateful because this is where you get a lot, this is hard to manufacture

Paddy: But present you is like dealing with dry heaving and like quad burn and you're just like, uh, my lungs feel like they are on fire and I hate everything right now I want to cry, but I also wanna say the F word.

Alexi: yeah. It's that exactly.

Paddy: Dealing with the fact that when you run, you kind of have like, type two fun, multiple personality disorder.

Alexi: yeah, yeah. It's pain and discomfort that, you know, you can get over later though. 'Cause it wasn't so humbling that I wish I hadn't done it. It was just humbling and I'm glad I did it anyway.. I was like, you did this to yourself. Like you went maybe unreasonably fast in the middle, you need to hold on because you made that decision.

And, that stubbornness, that like kind of feisty, rascal energy, I think makes me great

Paddy: like that. You ole feisty rascal.

Alexi: We all have those humbling moments and I think you have a choice when you get to that intersection to feel [00:07:00] like you did something wrong or to carry two feelings at once. Right. And say, I'm both humbled and I am here for the opportunity. That is the growth that you get from pushing through those moments.

Paddy: Oh, we're already getting so deep. I am so excited. All right, let's get into it.

Alexi: Sounds good.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

Paddy: I have watched footage of you sashay-ing your way through the New York City Marathon. It is magical to watch. So in your expert opinion, what qualities make for great race glitter.

Alexi: Oh, well, it's, you know, you're asking the right person

Paddy: I know you are. You,

Alexi: I wear it and I'm also, yeah. And I, um, I'm working with a glitter scientist to make a sweat proof glitter.

Paddy: Time. Hold on. Time out. there's A real life thing called a glitter scientist.

Alexi: Well, she's a makeup scientist and she's like a makeup chemist. And she's never done

Paddy: With focus in glitter. Okay.

Alexi: No, no. [00:08:00] She's not a focus in glitter. We are focusing on glitter and sweat, we have a prototype now. That is sweat proof. And it's great because there's a lot of, well, my only sweat proof glitter has been putting eyelash glue on my face, which causes like rashes and it's like glue,

Paddy: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Alexi: and loose glitter.

Or you put on the wet stuff that comes off 'cause it's like, you know, aloe based or something. So the best glitter is the sweat proof

Paddy: Is the one that you're gonna put to market. Perfect.

Alexi: but I think it is really about what people want to wear that day. It's also about who is this for and what's your why?

Like some people are trying to communicate to themselves to have more fun or to like, celebrate this day or to give themselves a chance to be visible in a different way. Some people are trying to communicate to the world something and so I think the, first thing with the glitter is just like.

where are you starting from? Like what are your goals today that this can help you with? Whether it's have more fun [00:09:00] or be connected to other people or just whatever. Right. Some people just slap it on and they're like, I'm not sure what this is. And then they discover it as they run with it what it feels like.

the

Paddy: philosophy of glitter, I love this

Alexi: Like when I first wore it, it was a very self-protective decision. I didn't start by being like very whimsical.

I was like, I need people to know that. I'm like, not fit, but I'm not injured.

Paddy: That you're just running. You were just running uh uh, the New York City marathon for fun.

Alexi: yeah. But I was in the elite athlete

Paddy: So you started a half an hour before everybody else, but you kind of needed to signal to the crowd, right? You were like, listen, I just had surgery like eight months ago, and I can run, but I can't.

Race, or I don't want to race. So instead, what I'm gonna do is don all this magical glitter, this like sweet, sweet attitude of blowing kisses to people and really meaning it like you were like making

Alexi: Really mean it

Paddy: with people and saying like, look, I am looking at you and I love you. And so, to me it seems like glitter [00:10:00] for you is a way of like celebrating the purpose and drive you have towards that race, whatever it is. And also it's just like, I mean, hell man, glitter's fun.

Alexi: Yeah. And think about running. Running is a sport that so often invites us. To give ourselves only enough and to press to the outer most limits of what we have. There's not a lot of like extra comfort room in running. Like if you think about a race, it's the opposite of abundance for the most part, right. When you're running a marathon

Paddy: It's like depletion, triage, essentially,

Alexi: Totally.

Paddy: It's almost like get to the finish line before your body finds out what you're doing.

Alexi: yeah. And try and replace as soon as you deplete, there's no luxury feeling in most marathons. So I think. When people do these accessorizing, whether it's like glitter or they're wearing a skirt or like, I'm not sure, whatever it is for you, I think there's an element of like maybe luxury or [00:11:00] like this feeling that there is more than enough of something, even if there's not more than enough glycogen,

Paddy: Right. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. , It's a bit of fun in a objectively punishing, brutal activity.

Alexi: Yeah. Fun and extra in an activity that there is not a lot of extra. If you had extra, you should be running faster if you are racing a marathon. And so at least you know there's extra somewhere being accounted for. The little things that you can be extra with are not, , inconsequential in the mental game of the sport.

Paddy: So, it's probably fair to say, right, that you've had this lifelong love affair with running, or at least a push and pull relationship with running for your entire life. Do you love the actual act of running in and of itself, or is running away for you to accomplish what you wanna accomplish? Like for example, competing in the Olympics or setting national records?

Alexi: it is a great [00:12:00] question. I haven't always loved running, but I started to love it in college when I found like a team and then an environment in the woods to love it with. And then these goals that were bigger than myself, 'cause I really cared about the team goals. And now I would say I love it more than I ever have.

But I will say that there's a level of fitness where I enjoy it even more. I have had some time off, like I froze my eggs. That took me out for like five months weirdly. And then I shattered my collarbone at the Paris Olympics. and I've been outta shape for like, many, many years for what feels to me like running like a gazelle, like running free, running socially.

And now that I'm starting to get back into it, I do love it more when it feels less difficult.

Paddy: Do you ever think about what your life would be like, feel like, look like if you didn't have running? Or do you picture yourself out on the [00:13:00] track and the trails like with an oxygen tank in a backpack with like, you know, a walker.

Alexi: oh man. I don't know if I'll be on a track. I think I'll be on trails, but, I think when I moved to LA I was like, well, maybe I'm done with running. ' Maybe it's time for me to be a tennis player. And I kind of tried to do other things and I like other sports a lot, but I kept naturally coming back to running.

So I think I'll run my whole life. I don't think I'll run 10 miles a day my whole life. I think that I enjoy running every day more than I enjoy needing to like push fitness. I think there's times to push it, but I, think it's something I'll probably do my whole life, , it's a sport that can always grow with you.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: I am six foot five and 250 pounds, and I say that I am like a, you know, neanderthal, wooly mammoth athletic artist, but it's just a great way to distract from my very heavy breathing and very super gross sweating.

But you on the [00:14:00] other hand, may just be the actual real life perfect 50 50 split of art and sport. There are plenty of athletes out there who create things. For instance, did you know Deon Sanders came out with a rap album in the nineties? Shaq also has a bunch of rap albums, and of course, very famously Ben Gibbard from Death Cab for Cutie is a accomplished ultra runner.

The list goes on and on. The point is, in terms of conventional success. I think you might take the cake. Right? Running in the Olympics and holding a national record are pretty straightforward ways to be considered successful in sports. Making Hollywood movies with a bunch of stars like Nick is also a very straightforward way to be considered a successful artist.

So I have a few questions on this. How many other athletes do you know of or have you encountered who are also active artists in their own right.

Alexi: It's, you know, great that you brought that up the day after my 20 mile long run, because guess who ran with me was my most, , athletic and most artistic friend, Leslie Patterson. She's a world class triathlete. [00:15:00] Like she's won Worlds. She doesn't compete anymore. she's now like really full on in the arts, you know, she wrote all quite on the Western Front, which is an Oscar winning movie. And so she is world class,

Paddy: This doesn't seem fair. Like you guys can't be good at both. You can't be all the things and good at all of the

Alexi: Oh, come on. She's, oh, but I need to help her with her fashion sense. Okay, so she's missing that. She would laugh if I said

Paddy: if

Alexi: Ha ha

Paddy: If Leslie has like the fashion sense thing that she needs to grow into, then what is the thing that you need to grow into

Alexi: oh my God.

I am messy. I'm not filthy, but like I am, like I need to like clean the house a little bit more. I get in trouble. Meaning like, I made this movie at the Olympics last summer in Paris, and. It was just too rushed and I ended up like shattering my collar. But like, I learned things the hard way 'cause I was being too scrappy.

So it's like I sore high and fall hard, and when I fall hard, I fall hard.

Paddy: literally like break bones.

Alexi: Yeah. Well also, like, I mean, look, we don't need to get into it here, but like, I was in like a really bad relationship. And so like, I [00:16:00] think I'm, I think I'm vulnerable in that way and I'm learning, but I, I'm very trusting of people.

you know what? I Think there's an athletic mindset that I have about everything that can get people into trouble, which is that I really don't like to give up. And I think athletes, right, like athletes and I believe, look, to be a great athlete, to win a national title, you have to suspend disbelief and live in wish land.

So I can often see the best in people and really see them for what I believe they can be, which is what you have to do with your teammates and with yourself if you're trying to be great. But it is not necessarily the right thing to do in a relationship where someone's not being loyal. I don't wanna get into it.

Paddy: okay. We won't get into

but here's, but here's the thing.

Alexi: I'm, I'm honest, I'm honest, man. I.

Paddy: guess a thing that is a good characteristic in sport

Alexi: Yes.

Paddy: that is not a great characteristic in relationships, right? Is like unwavering will,

Alexi: yeah. Unwavering. Yes.

Paddy: like, I am going to [00:17:00] power through and I don't care.

In sport. It's like this is what I just need to push my body and my emotions and everything about me, my soul, my grit, just to the goal. I don't care what I have to go through. And in relationships, it's like the, what is that?

The sunk cost, fallacy, you know? It's like, well, I've put so much time into this. I just need to do this. I need to, need to, need to. So

Alexi: yeah. Yes. Exactly. Is

Paddy: Fair assessment? You think? It's like, you're like, oh my God, I love this thing over here. Oh my God, I hate this thing over here.

Alexi: Yeah.

It's very fair. , It's not something to like resent about yourself, but I think it is really important to essentially just be thoughtful about what is guiding us with everything in our life and making sure that it's serving the purpose. , I mean, even in sport, your mentality should evolve, right?

Because there's a, time and a place for the grit at all cost approach, and then there's a time and a place for something else.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: You've often talked about running as kind of a performance akin to theater and when you got to Dartmouth, you said that you were the [00:18:00] worst runner on your cross country team, but then you discovered improv comedy,

Alexi: Mm-hmm.

Paddy: said that you're running improved after that.

So I am incredibly interested to find out what improv comedy unlocked in your running.

Alexi: well, improv comedy gave me a sense of humor about my life and taught me how to think because the. The,

Paddy: you mean by that? Taught you how to think.

Alexi: Well, the, the people in Dog Day, which was my improv group, which was the same group that Mindy Kaling was in, and Rachel d Dratch and Katie Silverman and these wonderful, artists that I admire. it, I mean, look, you to be in an improv group is to be in a different kind of team and people will bring you back down to earth.

So if you're getting too cocky or whatever, like they will bring you back down to earth. But there it's also smart humor and there's like a method and standards. So there was something about the art itself that made me a better person. obviously if you're trying to talk about like improvising in a race, like you do need to be able [00:19:00] to think on your feet.

So I'm good at that. and it's intelligent humor and I think intelligent runners have some advantage. I think also stupid runners, if you think about stupidity as not thinking have advantages too. 'cause there's some people who are just like. Against all logic went out crazy fast and then they win.

Paddy: So then did improv, , introduce looking through life through the lens of humor and then what? You had more levity, you had more joy, and so you weren't taking things so seriously. It was a little more lighthearted at practice and then in cross country meets in college. Is that what it is?

Alexi: yeah. I had, and I had another outlet, right. It was like, I had a reason to end practice. Like, think about the, the, the, the grammar of my day was like wake up, maybe jog do class all day, go to practice, and then end practice, go to the dining hall, eat quickly, get to rehearsals.

And there's a lot of athletes that suffer because their brain is always on running and they never hang up [00:20:00] the shoes metaphorically, even if they hang them up in the locker room. Their head is like running all day, all night. And it's like, actually this sport takes a lot of willpower. And if you can't replenish your willpower and feel refreshed to be back at practice and you're running at 10:00 PM in your mind, 'cause your anxiety, whatever, it doesn't really serve you.

And so I think the fact was I made the most of my time. I felt I had another outlet, which was really positive. I had purpose, even when I wasn't great at running, I had a lot of, meaning, in, in improv I was always contributing. I was a really strong member of that team. So even when I was the worst on the running team, I could still find ways to contribute, I guess on the running team as like a, I was kind of like a mascot or something.

'cause I would cheer and I was funny. so maybe the comedy gave me like a purpose on the running team, , even when it wasn't my performances.

Paddy: So it, it was boosting your confidence. It was taking the

Alexi: Confidence. Yeah,

Paddy: do you think it was also like, I don't know, [00:21:00] expanding the breadth of emotionality

Alexi: definitely. Oh, yeah, yeah,

Paddy: years old and you're, you know, what your prefrontal cortex is, is kind of like, mush and your executive brain is trying to figure out how to get in there.

And so, I guess I could understand how improv putting yourself into new positions, within the circumstances of whatever the improv is, is like expanding kind of the, toolbox of emotions for you almost. Is that what it was?

Alexi: I think it, it was a lot of those things, and also it's very hard to pinpoint exactly why something was. Good or synergistic all the time. Like I can't tell you all the reasons. I can only tell you that I felt more whole during that time. I felt like I was in like a luscious forest, which I was, I was in New Hampshire, but like life was so lush and big and like it was so yummy to like just be in this place of stimulation and growth and being dynamic like that is also [00:22:00] gives you competitive edge.

MUISC FOR A BEAT

PADDYO VO:

More from Olympian, writer, director, actress, everything-er-er, Alexi Pappas, after the break.

MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL MIDROLL

Paddy: Let's talk about the full spectrum of emotions and their mixture in this very full life of yours, because to me, what makes for good writing, whether it's a novel or a memoir, or a script, full spectrum of emotion makes for the good writing. And I wanna watch or read characters who are full of emotion.

Conversely, I am absolutely fascinated by elite athletes and their ability to squash fear and vulnerability or any emotions that are not serving the specific goal, the win, podium, the medal, the record, whatever it is, and they only allow space for that killer instinct that makes them the best of the best. Do you keep these emotional worlds separate, or do I have it completely wrong? And they're the same thing happening at the same time.

Alexi: What a great question. [00:23:00] Let me think. Yeah. Um, uh, well, I mean, look, some of the best movies even. There's like what the character thinks they need and what they really need. So I feel like some of the audience's experience is watching somebody express a full range of emotion that is avoiding another emotion too.

You know, like, 'cause they're so human. But you're right that, like the most satisfying movies, they go through that journey. Right. And you're, you're saying. is it true that athletes do the opposite of that?

Paddy: Well, I guess I don't wanna call athletes one dimensional, but do you hang up Athlete Alexi and then take artist Alexi off the shelf?

Alexi: Yeah. yeah. And that's, how do you do that?

Paddy: do you have, like, do you have like cues?

Alexi: I have a writing playlist I don't listen to it when I run it puts me in the more open head space. I've Had it for so many years and I add to it, but it's like I don't listen to that music when I'm not writing.

I was reading the David Lynch book, catching the Big Fish. I love it. And I realize I haven't [00:24:00] actually been the best since college at giving enough time to go to that kind of subconscious place with the writing. And I wanna do more of it again.

'cause I used to write for like four to six hours at a time. Four minimum At Dartmouth. Minimum. Minimum. You don't get out of your surface level thoughts, sentence structures feelings, the, the silly surface level feelings for like at least an hour, maybe more. And so you don't really make anything great.

You don't really write anything great that is at another level until after that, in my opinion, at least for myself. It takes time that you have to set aside and then in the running, , it's interesting because yeah, basically for periods of time, you're committing to a level of discomfort that you're gonna push out and accept but until it goes past a certain amount of pain, you have already signed on to it and you've accepted it. Wholly, contractually with yourself. So you have to be more in touch so that you can adapt. You're basically committing to pain. You know, you can get out of later and maybe [00:25:00] with writing,

let's deal with this right here, right now, and whatever comes, comes, and this is actually where pain is welcome.

I'll tell you, the pain of a race is more difficult for me like, when I'm really, really in pain of a work at a race, that is a lot harder than for me to go to that place in writing.

I think that I have an extremely high pain tolerance. And so I can be in a lot of pain for a long time I think it maybe is all about attention. And so in writing you're kind of taking off your attention consciousness, the things that are usually kind of shouting at you or the things you have to attend to. So that things can come to you

one is like healing, discovery and open-ended, and that's your writing, even if it hurts. And the other one is like much sharper,

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: Some of the rules in writing that I try to stick to right, are specificity in all things. And write what you know, your first two films, track Town and Olympic Dreams, really pulled from your [00:26:00] personal history as an elite athlete and Olympian.

Your 2023 film, not an artist, veers into this very fun and funny examination of the creative process. Are you actively expanding what you know so you can explore new genres and new themes? Like would you consider something, for instance, like going on ride alongs with the LA police so you can write a buddy cop thriller, or do you wanna stay grounded in your personal experience and continue to write more of these?

And I have to say this as a compliment. Delightful dramedies and delightful romantic comedies.

Alexi: Thanks. Um, I mean, the movie I'm writing now is a big film adaptation of a bestselling book. So it's based on a real story, but she was a runner and there's a mental health component. And so it's not that it's about me, but it's definitely still in the world that I know.

and I think the reason why I'm not done telling those stories yet is because I don't really feel like I've self-actualized as like a visual filmmaker [00:27:00] yet. I'm very proud of the things I've made, but I've really learned by doing. And so I think, I have something to like, explore and express with, skills and perspectives that I'm have yet to realize. And so I still feel that I wanna do that in the worlds that I know, but I think it'd be fun to tell stories in worlds that are not my own. It just happens to be that there's very few people that can tell stories in these worlds , that I know and those are important worlds to share stories about.

Paddy: But the buddy cop thriller is not off the table,

Alexi: I have no, I have a buddy comedy, but it's still like, I can't talk about it, no, it's not off the table. But I, but also, I'll be honest with you, I've been approached about sometimes like working on a project or directing something that was in no way derivative of me.

And sometimes I just have to ask myself and be real, like, am I the best person to do this? Right? Because that's another thing about Hollywood.

Paddy: check.

Alexi: Right.

Paddy: a self, a [00:28:00] self-propelled ego check.

Alexi: Yeah. Because, there's a lot of people who would do anything, right? And I only have one life and I respect that I wanna do things at the highest level I can.

And so if I think I can be the best teammate to some story, great. But if I can't, that's an athletic principle to be like, can I play this position on the baseball team?

Paddy: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Alexi: And I think there's some people in Hollywood who will be like, I can do anything. And it's like, no, you can't actually, like, or maybe you're not the best person to play third base.

And I wish more people would be honest about that because that's part of what's gotten me into trouble is I, I used to take people in Hollywood at face value like I did athletes because this is actually crazy. So it's not crazy. It's just, it's interesting. I think. Like in, in a sports team, if someone says like, I am, you know, a 1500 meter runner, or I'm a third baseman, or whatever it is, and then they're on the team, you are like, okay, like then they're that , and you'll find out very quickly if they are in fact that right, because it's just, you will see

Paddy: yeah,

Alexi: and [00:29:00] there's proof

Paddy: Like first practice, you guys go out for a run

Alexi: you'll know.

Paddy: you'll absolutely know if the

Alexi: you'll know.

Paddy: the we're running next to you, you're like, you've actually, like, your shoes are on the opposite feet right now. Like you've never run before.

Alexi: you'll know. Exactly. You'll know and you kind of trust that people are being really honest. 'cause it's very hard not to be, I think in sports, very hard to fake it and, and yet in Hollywood I'm learning that that's not always the case. And I just trusted that if someone says like I'm a great writer, that they're a great writer and all the things.

And the truth is that I need to be better about, reading people's work or just understanding, you know, ahead of time, not just taking people in the same sports face value as I do in sport. I don't mean that negatively. I mean that like, I need to slow down and make sure that I'm being really thoughtful.

'cause it's a different process. and

Paddy: to hear people in Hollywood are BSing their way to the top.

PAUSE PAUSE

Well, a lot of people might assume that the skillset and [00:30:00] strengths necessary for success in running are totally unrelated to the skillset and strengths necessary for success As a performer or an artist or a writer, are those people wrong or are those people right? They're wrong.

Alexi: They're wrong. They're so wrong. A hundred percent

One of my mentors is Richard Linklater, and we talk about this frequently because he is. Was a great, great athlete, great writer, director, great athlete growing

Paddy: He was a, a baseball player, right? Yeah.

Alexi: Yeah. And he's such, he's still a great athlete. I mean, films are teams, right? And, and I see running as a team sport I always have that approach. I could go into like what it is to be a team because those elements carry over into the film and the art world.

Certainly losing is an ingredient to winning. The winningest teams lose and Hollywood, there's so many nos. You gotta be able to weather those patience. Being able to work with all sorts of people where you have one common goal.

PAUSE PAUSE

my relationship with running right now feels Jay Duplass helped me understand this. 'cause I was trying to describe to him what I'm [00:31:00] doing and I was like, maybe it would be fun to maybe run fast, but I'm not forcing it.

I'm not going back to a training group. I'm doing it as I feel. And he was like, you know what you're doing is art. Because as an athlete chasing the Olympic dream, you're kind of have a goal and you're working backwards. And that's not art. You can't be like, this is the movie I'm making. It's gonna be exactly this.

You have to kind of find the movie. Right. Even if you have a goal of it feeling a certain way, you can't be like, it can be so exact. But with art, you're kind of moving forward and you're staying curious and present, and that feels like what I'm doing with running now.

And so Jay really helped me understand that I'm approaching my athletics more like art I have a feeling inside me. It's very strange. I tried to write about it on Instagram, but I don't even know if I captured it. I forgot. What it feels like when my body can do almost like exactly what my mind wants it to do.

And I haven't felt it in since Rio, I haven't felt it in so many years that I've forgot and it's almost makes me emotional [00:32:00] because it's a cool feeling that I'm starting to touch and it's not all the time 'cause I'm not in shape. I'm just starting to feel little moments.

It is so awesome nothing to do with goals or achievement or anything. It is an amazing human feeling to have with yourself. To feel like you can just look at a hill and be like, boom. Your mind and just bound up it like, it's so cool. It's so cool. And I like, I could like almost cry 'cause I.

It's not about beating anybody. It's not about even beating myself. It's about literally bounding in a direction with your legs and not feeling resistance and feeling like, I don't even know. It's crazy. It's so cool.

Paddy: That must be a really cool feeling. I don't know if I've ever felt that running.

Alexi: It's an earned feeling. Well, that's the other thing is like, it's earned, right?

Fitness is earned and anyone can have it. Like I do believe anyone can have this kind of harmony with themselves, but it takes time and work and I'm [00:33:00] starting to feel that it's worth the work and for more than just the Olympics. Even though the Olympics is awesome. So, I don't know. And, and I'm certainly not gonna like.

Sacrifice the things I'm doing with the rest of my life. Like I love Guiding Lisa. I love doing crazy, fun things with all the brands I'm working with. I love, the art I'm doing is, is, is really taking front seat, but I am still. Running and I, and I don't know where it's going. And we'll see, you know,

Paddy: I, I, I think you're an achievement. Tasmanian devil.

Alexi: but it's

Paddy: are just, you are

Alexi: that's what you see though, because I

Paddy: It is what I see. I

Alexi: but I don't care. It's not about the, like I don't, it's, I don't know. Maybe it's about it. I guess I have to talk to my, I have therapy right after this, so I'm gonna talk to my therapist about this because I don't know if it's about achievement. I don't know.

Maybe it is and

Paddy: I am not saying that it, the achievement has to be the, the, the medal or the podium. It can be [00:34:00] bounding without resistance up the hill. It can be a great writing session that leads to nothing. It can be the big pitch that you land for the giant studio blockbuster, you know, summer flick. it Can be all those things. But to me, I don't know the, in the way in which that you're describing both your artistic life and your athletic life, the thing that connects them both is this will to do. And by doing, you get to the thing because you're relentless at both. Like one might be a little more wispy than the other, but you get to the thing it seems. Do you that?

Alexi: The only thing I think is. Standing between me and anything is just doing it. Is that what you're saying? I mean, that's how I feel. Like if I was like

Paddy: that how you feel?

Alexi: a hundred percent, I was like, dude, if I, I really feel capable. I feel capable, but there's only so much time and then yeah, I feel capable.

Like part of me is like, shoot, you should, yeah, I

Paddy: Are you thinking of like entering the [00:35:00] Kentucky Derby, going to the moon? You should buy a lottery ticket. You should

Alexi: no, you can't do it. You can't do it all though. You can't do it all. And I'm not saying I'm not gonna fall down or be humbled. . I'm not saying every step is gonna be easy or painless, I'm just saying that if I just keep going, I can move closer and closer toward, , big things.

Whether it's honest writing or whether it's, running faster. I don't know when those things will actualize. Right? Like, 'cause I might make a terrible project and then make a good, like, do you know what I'm saying? I can't, I'm not saying it's gonna be excellent right away or my fitness gonna come right away.

I'm just saying I have no doubt about moving towards something and saying I would be the first person to pick on the, for my own team to, to, to do that thing. And that's because I'm, I think I'm not afraid to fail. 'cause I think I've failed so many times that I don't know, it's just so normal for me to fall down now.

Paddy: So failure's like nothing failure's just

Alexi: It's just, it happens on the way to the [00:36:00] mailbox. You just fall down

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: I know that you don't like the titles of your multihyphenate, which I respect.

I am, however, wondering that given all the things that make up your professional work and your identity, is there one thing that you hope the audience or spectator takes away from you and all the things that you do and are, is there one goal in mind?

Alexi: For myself or for them? .

Paddy: Yes.

Alexi: I mean, I think, I really hope that people see themselves as a verb and not a noun. Like truly let themselves move through emotions and phases of their life, like fluidly and like move, like let themselves evolve basically, and stop trying to like pin themselves down and become something fixed if we're not in the driver's seat of our own change, we're gonna change against our will and , mal adapt or whatever if we're not like conscious. And I think that to be alive is to change. I want people to see [00:37:00] me that way because I want people to stop a, asking me what's going on and dah, dah, dah. It's like, I don't know, I'm just me, man. Like I'm doing what I'm doing. Let's go have fun. Join me if you want, whatever. But like, I'm gonna keep surprising you guys, but not for the sake of it. I want them to feel good and, and feel good things. but I gotta be myself no matter what. And I hope that they can do that for themselves too. cause to be a verb is also to be kind of infinite and, to be possible.

Like you could be anything with that.

PAUSE PAUSE PAUSE

Paddy: It is now time for the final ramble. One piece of gear you can't live without.

Alexi: Honestly, I can't live without my Merrell trail shoes 'cause I need to be able to run.

Paddy: great answer. And I'm sure Merrell is gonna be very, very happy that you said that.

Alexi: Yeah. But also it's true,

Paddy: best outdoor snack.

Alexi: I'm really into the blue RAs bunk breakers because they're sour and sweet and they're like candy, but they also are fuel.

Paddy: Are they like gummy bears?

Alexi: They're gummies, I mean, they're called energy [00:38:00] chew.

I liked sour candy growing up. So those are pretty dang good.

Paddy: What is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Alexi: Oh, I guess to take off your wet sports bra when you're done running so that you don't get sick.

Maybe that's not a hot take.

Paddy: No, that doesn't seem like a hot take. That just seems like, um, medical, medical advice

Alexi: I feel like I'm used to giving advice is a hot take. Like something that people wouldn't like,

Paddy: perhaps. Yeah, perhaps. Or just like something that maybe nobody would think of.

Alexi: oh okay, let me think.

Paddy: are you too nice to do a hot take?

Alexi: Okay. I have a good hot take

Paddy: Okay.

Alexi: well, like, I don't know if I'm, I know I have opinions. I just don't have opinions about things I don't have opinions about. You know what I mean? Like, it's like I do and I do, I think records are meant to be broken 'cause I sat with Abby Wamback on my podcast Mentor Buffet, and we, we really leveled on the fact that in soccer, women's soccer always expects the next generation to level up and level up. And it's like a generational thing of like, they should be performing [00:39:00] better, the technology's better, they should be paid more.

Like the expectation is that they should be better. ' And I think in running generally we hope things get better, but I think people should wish and be okay with records getting broken and all this stuff about the younger generations and really embrace that and expect it because that's how other sports are.

And that would be a more positive way to approach, the natural progression of a sport and an evolution of it.

Paddy: Boom. There you go.

Alexi: That's my hot take and take off your wet sports bra.

Paddy: And always

Alexi: God. I feel like I said, I don't even know what I said today, but I'm, I'm just being honest. I'm just trying to filter myself less 'cause it's so much effort to not be honest.

MUSIC IN THE CLEAR FOR A BEAT

Paddy: PADDYO VO:

Alexi Pappas is a runner, Olympian, filmmaker, actresss, and author. Check out her films Tracktown, Olympic Dreams, and Not An Artist, and her book Bravey. They're all over the internet, you can visit her website Alexi Pappas Dot Com, and get updates [00:40:00] on her happenings on Instagram at Alexi Pappas. You can also read more about her in the pages of the current issue of ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ Magazine, on newsstands now. And if you'd like to hear Alexi turn the tables of a chat show and be the interviewer rather than interviewee, listen to her podcast Mentor Buffet.

And hey, dear sweet audience members, do you like what you're hearing, have an idea for a guest, want to send us a digital high five? Well, you can. Email us guest nominations and all your pod thoughts to ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ Podcast At ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ Inc Dot Com.

The ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. The show is also produced by storytelling wizard, Micah "my inbox is a hellacious warzone but my heart is neopolitan ice cream " Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. And booking [00:41:00] and research by Maren Larsen.

The ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ Podcast is made possible by our ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ Plus members. Learn about all the extra rad benefits and become a member yourself at ¹ú²ú³Ô¹ÏºÚÁÏ Online Dot Com Slash Pod Plus.