Like any great love story, this one starts with two strangers at a baggage claim.
Last year, at 5Point Film Festival, Fitz Cahall, the elder statesman of outdoor podcasts for the past 11 years as host of the , approached writer Paddy O鈥機onnell about potentially hosting a second podcast. He wanted to start an interview-style show about the outdoor world, but he wanted it to be weird and irreverent and fun, and after watching O鈥機onnell drop from the ceiling wearing flaming fairy wings while hosting the festival, he figured he might be the right person for the job. O鈥機onnell was interested.
Elizabeth Nakano, who had been freelance producing for the Seattle-based Diaries, came to town to meet the crew and talk about ideas, and by the time they left baggage claim at Sea-Tac, she and O鈥機onnell, who had never met before, were riffing on each other, tossing jokes back and forth.
Nakano was initially just supposed to produce the show, but when Cahall heard their rapport, he had a better idea. The two would co-host, and use their banter鈥擮鈥機onnell鈥檚 goofy good cop, and Nakano鈥檚 eye rolling bad cop鈥攖o draw out guests. The result is a brand new weekly podcast: , which launched at the end of May. In the first season they ask people like BASE jumper Chris MacNamara about disasters, or Wylder Goods听founder Jainee Dial about losing听her boyfriend听in a climbing accident.
鈥淟颈办别 Dirtbag Diaries, we鈥檙e still building on a story arc, and some poignancy, but we鈥檙e doing it in a really different way,鈥 O鈥機onnell says. 鈥淲e鈥檙e going to talk about the outdoor industry,听about death,听about love. It鈥檚 a really wide scope.鈥
Nakano says they try to get guests to drill down to a specific belief statement that shapes the way they look at the world. The statement for their show is 鈥渋deas forged from adventure.鈥听We asked them about their podcasting philosophy, their dream guests, and what they鈥檝e been listening to (besides their own show).
On Why They Like Podcasting as Their Platform
ELIZABETH NAKANO: It鈥檚 an overused trope, but people always say it鈥檚 like storytelling around a campfire, and there is something really intimate about hearing people鈥檚 voices right in your ear.
PADDY O鈥機ONNELL: We didn鈥檛 really want an interview podcast, we wanted it to be a conversation. Originally the plan was me in front of a microphone. We tried one run through of that and everyone was like, 鈥淭his is not it.鈥 In a conversation you interject and talk over people, so by miking everyone and layering the audio, we could make it feel like that.
On Belief Statements
PO: The way I see it in my head, Elizabeth and I are kind of like aliens floating around asking people, 鈥淗ow do you do life?鈥 Those people are going to tell us the lessons they鈥檝e learned, and how they use those as fuel to move forward and navigate life. Selfishly, it鈥檚 kind of like: 鈥淐an you make me a better person based on your good stuff and your hard stuff?鈥 I love the outdoors because it really puts your character on trial in front of you. You can be happy-go-lucky in the parking lot, but what happens when you鈥檙e in the backcountry and shit hits the fan?
EN: I ask guests, do they have a gut feeling about a certain principle, and from there we get into the facts, and things from their life that build up to that. It鈥檚 not necessarily how they apply their beliefs, but more, how do we arrive at certain conclusions.
PO: We had my parents听on, to talk about love, and their belief is: 鈥淲e believe marriage is a path to self,鈥 or [director of Colorado鈥檚听Office of Outdoor Recreation Industry] Luis Benitez听said, 鈥淭he outdoor industry needs to operate like the oil industry.鈥
On Helping Guests to Open Up
PO: Elizabeth and I, because of who we are, use humor as a way to connect but also a way to hide in plain sight. I鈥檝e had to laugh through the difficult things I鈥檝e been through and now we鈥檙e getting to use humor to discuss big things. You can disarm people, and get their shields down. Wait, that sounds creepy. I mean we use it to ease the listeners in, to talk about the tough parts. We call it the beach entrance.
On What鈥檚 Next
PO: Coming up we have episodes with Stacy Bare, Eric Jackson, and Erik Weihenmayer. But I鈥檓 also excited about digging into the rapport between Elizabeth and me, and figuring out how we use that. As a writer I鈥檝e never had a writing partner, and I鈥檝e had tons of editors, but I鈥檝e never sat across the table with someone and worked on the same piece. I finally realize how Lennon and McCartney felt. Did I just call us the Beatles?
On a Dream Guest
PO: Michael Jordan. Dude, I still watch Michael Jordan videos on VHS.
On What They鈥檙e Listening To
EN: I listen to over 100 podcasts every month, to try to focus on different storytelling techniques, and track what people are finding interesting. Right now I鈥檓 really into 听from The New York Times. It鈥檚 by one of my favorite Radiolab producers, Andy Mills, and Rukmini Callimachi, who I think is an amazing journalist.
PO: I just finished reading . The world needs to read more Brendan Leonard. I could listen to Terry Gross all day.听Have you heard the interview she does with Marc Maron? He flips it around on her and makes her talk about herself, and .